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Forum ~ General ~ Sampling vs. DAW production vs. Instruments. What is art? |
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|  Sampling vs. DAW production vs. Instruments. What is art? [GENERAL] | |
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Frank-No-More
  Artist
Topics: 1
Replies: 9
Registered: 25.Oct.07 |
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I'd like to address the issue of what makes a musician, a musician. I'm kind of getting the sense of musical elite-ism on CTG that I was hoping to avoid by bringing my work to the site. There are not too many good communities out there. I stumbled across CTG in 2007 because of the large trance following so I could find music to mix. Also because of it's largely international member base, people here in the States tend to be far too close minded to blend art with what is popular. No duh, right? My main goal as a remix artist, as stated in my bio, is to offer set DJ's one of a kind song options for club mixing. I also want to help CTG's notority as a got to destination for up and coming talent of which there is plenty here.Now with that said, I am exposed to a lot of "pop" music beacuse I have a 14 year old daughter who constantly listens to the same (boring) radio induced music day in and day out. It disturbs me to hear how many elements of the electronic movement have been making it's way into pop music since the mid-90's. I started programming in 1994 with the purchase of my first peice of hardware being a Roland DR-5 drum machine. Four tracks and a good place to start producing. After a while it wasn't enough creative power. Over the next 10 years I had built a full production studio. My musician friends claimed I wasn't a true musician because of my reliance on the gear. I would respectfully disagree by saying you still have to know what a measure is, what a quarter, eighth and sixteenth note is and how to use them. The gear is an instrument, just like a guitar or drums, just not a traditional one. I believe the same with DAW software and DJ-ing software, it is all the same in the end. How I make remixes are just like a band situation. I'll pick one of my daughter's songs I kind of like, mostly comes down to the melody, and turn it into something I like and will listen too. I assemble maybe a dozen samples, rehearse and record it live. If I miss a drop or a break I have to start all over again. The software and all it's short cuts are my instrument. All my remixes have to meet high standards before I let anyone else hear or download them. Most of what is made and circulating on CTG is using the DAW software and I understand the idea; songs are far more original than using other peoples work and tweaking it. But don't let quality work pass you by; my arrangements are culminations of years of exposure to many different genres of music and I try to blend them together to come up with a unique product in the end. I am first and foremost a performer and can do everything put forth here live. Not unlike how Fatboy Slim,The Chemical Brothers or Crystal Method started out. My question to everybody is why stick to the rules when creativity has so many forms? I've never been one to stick to the rules. Is what I do any less artistic than a programmer or classical musician? We may program a measure with a synth or kick drum but we are not physically playing it. Let's get a dialog going here and help CTG become a destination site for unique, up and coming acts.
Gotta got to work. Kudos, Frank-No-More... |
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Randor
 Administrator
Topics: 560
Replies: 2948
Registered: 27.Dec.02 |
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Oh, you definitely have a point. I have to apologize my english, its probably limited considering so complex issues you addressed, but will give a try.
First of all, I agree with you generally. There are some issues I'd like to point out and first one is a term " musician ". I've always left a profession of musician to those who actually make their living out of music. No matter if its programming or playin, composing or performing. But that just me, a hobby musician 
I'm around your age, almost 40 and having daughters 15, 12 and 4. Two eldest almost share my taste, partly breaking the rule kids_just_hate_music_their_parents_like. Ofcource there's exeptions. Some of the J-rock they idolize, I can't stand. And yes, most of the time music is played too loud. Mid-age proven  At this very moment I can hear they play Svenson&Gielen We Know What You Did from spotify 
But anyway, we can have a splendid moment with latest hit by Skrillex or we may enjoy the same trip offered by DJ Tiësto or Ferry Corsten, not to mention every other good&old artists. For me, its kind of fun to hear and notice influences from all EDM genres on pop music. There's trends and artists I've known before they came something, a nice impression of foreseen hips
Back to term musician and instuments we use. Its an instrument, no matter is it deck or DAW, hardware midistudio or a mixture of all these. Thinking out of box means there's no box No rules except the one what you hear, must sound reasonable. At least for someone.
About eliteism, it is just disguised recklessness, a pathetic attempt to praise self-confidence by knowledge and skills. Healthy self-confidence is different issue. |
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Frank-No-More
Artist
Topics: 1
Replies: 9
Registered: 25.Oct.07 |
Thanks, Randor for participating and I do apologize if "elite-ism" is too strong of a word here for everybody. The reponse on CTG has been very positive, I've just had a strange situation with comments/reviews that were pulled recently. Also it was my daughter who showed me Skrillrex's Monsters and Sprites. She has a very good ear as well. Please keep the comments flowing if anyone feels like adding to the discussion.  |
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clones
Artist
Topics: 26
Replies: 116
Registered: 01.Aug.09 |
I would like to point out that the Beatles were the first to use the studio as an instrument and prior to them experiments with tape created compositions that were sequenced samples recorded on tape - what a tracker does - Poème électronique (101 hits) by Edgard Varèse - a technique then called Musique concrète (105 hits).
I divide things differently
a musician plays an instrument
a composer creates music for instruments
Trackers are, to me, composers who compose music for an instrument called "a computer". And as such can trace their roots back to the first experiments with computer generated electronic music in the 1950s. Computer music (102 hits)
http://www.chrisvaisvil.com (179 hits) |
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Frank-No-More
Artist
Topics: 1
Replies: 9
Registered: 25.Oct.07 |
clones wrote on 22 Feb. (23:15) :
I would like to point out that the Beatles were the first to use the studio as an instrument and prior to them experiments with tape created compositions that were sequenced samples recorded on tape - what a tracker does - Poème électronique (101 hits) by Edgard Varèse - a technique then called Musique concrète (105 hits).
I divide things differently
a musician plays an instrument
a composer creates music for instruments
Trackers are, to me, composers who compose music for an instrument called "a computer". And as such can trace their roots back to the first experiments with computer generated electronic music in the 1950s. Computer music (102 hits)
http://www.chrisvaisvil.com (179 hits) |
Man, I love learning new stuff everyday. Thanks clones for the input, I will be changing my terminology to what you've described above from here on out. Far more descriptive in my book as well. Frank-No-More |
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Randor
Administrator
Topics: 560
Replies: 2948
Registered: 27.Dec.02 |
Yes, clones got good point. However, I cant describe myself as a composer either, cause that would be equal to Jean Sibelius or Frank Lizst, wich is, in my opinion, a misunderstood. Latter one were also superb performer, a Musician with upper case
Back to eliteism, isn't too strong word. I know what you mean and suggest you leave it as its worthless |
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Frank-No-More
Artist
Topics: 1
Replies: 9
Registered: 25.Oct.07 |
Randor wrote on 23 Feb. (15:41) :
Yes, clones got good point. However, I cant describe myself as a composer either, cause that would be equal to Jean Sibelius or Frank Lizst, wich is, in my opinion, a misunderstood. Latter one were also superb performer, a Musician with upper case
Back to eliteism, isn't too strong word. I know what you mean and suggest you leave it as its worthless |
I agree and done, Frank-No-More... |
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Valve
Staff / Moderator
Topics: 23
Replies: 180
Registered: 24.Nov.05 |
Doesn't really matter what we call ourselves: musician, composer, programmer, producer.. We do all of those things in my opinion. The end result is what should matter, the music. Why focus on how the music was created, when we can just enjoy the melodies and rhythm provided for us?
Autio & Maattala - Aidee [wavedata records] - Out now!
Solar Emotion - Distant Visions (valve remix) [wavedata records] - Out on Feb 29th!
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Frank-No-More
Artist
Topics: 1
Replies: 9
Registered: 25.Oct.07 |
Well, I think we are all on the same page. Where do we go from here? I also totally agree with Valve; it doesn't matter what we call ourselves. I also believe we are a mash up of all these things. But I do believe we are composers. Composers of electronic music. Maybe not, or even close to the same level of a modern or classical instrument composer... but composers we are none the less. As clones said earlier this has been going on in the studio since the 50's. It's so far advanced today because of the wicked things that can be done with the software. My question again is where do we go from here? Keep developing more, deeper, weirder, tech-ier sounds? Go back to basics? Go Hollywood? Stay the same? Break the rules and blur the lines between genre's? Make more genre's?... Easier said than done... Any thoughts?
Kudos, Frank-No-More... |
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Nandoo Messany
Artist
Topics: 8
Replies: 55
Registered: 20.Feb.10 |
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Frank-No-More wrote on 25 Feb. (6:19) :
Well, I think we are all on the same page. Where do we go from here? I also totally agree with Valve; it doesn't matter what we call ourselves. I also believe we are a mash up up of all these things. But I do believe we are composers. Composers of electronic music. Maybe not, or even close to the same level of a modern or classical instrument composer... but composers we are none the less. As clones said earlier this has been going on in the studio since the 50's. It's so far advanced today because of the wicked things that can be done with the software. My question again is where do we go from here? Keep developing more, deeper, weirder, tech-ier sounds? Go back to basics? Go Hollywood? Stay the same? Break the rules and blur the lines between genre's? Make more genre's?... Easier said than done... Any thoughts?
Kudos, Frank-No-More... |
I am experimenting with that part.
I wanna mix Trance with Dance, Dubstep, House, Hardstyle, Pop, whatever or mix dubstep with hardstyle, hardstyle with rap, dubstep with rap and so on.
I have to write more reviews so that I can post all the songs from me and my friends a little bit faster.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MessanyRecordings?feature=mhee,
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Messany-Recordings/158743210812502 |
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