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|  [Hardware]CPU Temperature [HELP] | |
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DDspeed
  Artist
Topics: 24
Replies: 4892
Registered: 07.Jun.03 |
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PPH wrote on 24 Jul. (14:36) :
Well, at first I thought what Atlantis suggests: "There is no system fan". But now I think it could be the fan that's on the power supply. However, I wonder why this would affect the CPU so much. The CPU fan seems ok, at least, from the RPM readings (you're right ganja: RPS would be quite absurd  ).
I'm lucky to have a Pentim and not AMD. It it was an AMD, it would have melted long ago. |
I heard that Athlons are more resistant to temperature, but everyone tells different things about it.
EDIT: I already opened the case, and the only fan I see the the processor's fan. By the way, the fan's speed is not constant. I.e.: it goes from 2300 RPM to 2500RPM then back, etc. Is that normal?
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Sure. There's no perfect engine that would have exactly the same speed all the time, such differences should not affect the temperature that much. Soemthing is definately wrong inside your computer.
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Gopher
 Member
Topics: 24
Replies: 1540
Registered: 05.Jan.03 |
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PPH: Yup, it's the CPU Fan. Non-constant RPM is usual, unless the fluctuation range is great (i.e. +/- 5000-2000 RPM). It's normal for a fan to fluctuate within about a thousand or two of the designed speed, but if it fluctuates a lot then you might need to get a new fan.
Right now, I can think of several things and stuff that you should look at.
Run the system up and boot straight into the BIOS, OR (if you have a system health monitoring thingy in your OS) boot into your OS and load the system health monitor. Now, sit there for about five minutes and watch the temperatures of the CPU, Motherboard/System temperature and the CPU Fan speed.
Now, the CPU temp is the most critical part, whereas the system temp can be taken to be the ambient temperature of the air inside the case.
Now, watch for the CPU temp and the fan speed. If CPU temp goes up and up and up and the CPU FAN stays constant, then check your system temp. If thats going up too (slowly though) then you have a heat dissipation problem and probably need to open up some more holes in the case and stick some fans in. Consider also getting a reserator (google for it).
If the Fan speed suddenly drops, or the fluctuations are quite large as outlined earlier, then you need to get a new fan. Take a look at Zalman equipment. It's a bit pricey, but it's very effective, (usually) quiet (depending on model) and quite aesthetically pleasing. Downside is that they are a bit heavy too.
FOR THE INTERESTED READER:
MORE ISSUES ON REMOVING EXCESS HOT AIR
Okay, here is where I get geeky. Stand by for a LOT of words.
To cool a computer, you want to increase the mass flow rate of HOT air from the inside of the computer to the outside (your room). You do this by taking sides of the case off, sticking extra fans around the case (better ones are larger; higher mass flow rate and larger impellers means noise is at a lower wavelength) or, in the extreme, using a water system (reservator or reserator, whatever it was called).
Also, by using heat sinks, you can soak up this heat energy. Basically, a heat sink soaks up the heat and takes it away from the critical place and radiates/conducts this heat energy away more efficiently than just doing it from the CPU surface alone. You can also use them as heat sources, gathering the heat into hot spots so you can remove the heat away more efficiently, but thats a bit of a pipe dream.
Lastly, you can increase the aerodynamic efficiency of the computer internals, and also the aerodynamic efficiency of the carriage of hot air inside to the outside. The former means making a clear path through all them IDE/power cables to the PSU (or also getting a knife and CUTTING the IDE ribbons into seperate strips and putting them together, therefore lowering the resistance to airflow - this is rather risky though, duh) and any air vents; the latter includes removing the grating on the PSU fans and PSU grates. The aim here is to enhance circulation inside the computer so that hot air is more easily transferred out of the system. Tidy is always best.
With modern high-power PSUs, they sometimes come equipped with TWO fans; one "sucker" on the underside and one "blower" which blows it out to the ambient environment. You can use this to your advantage to fast-track the HOT air from the CPU, through the PSU sucker and blow it out of the PSU. In my experience, the PSU is the most obvious outlet of hot air, so it pays to keep a clear path to it.
I know a lot of people use extra fans, and being in a temperate climate with low heat signatures I don't use them, and I'm quite sceptical of their use. However, I will say this: Using extra fans draws more power, therefore adds to the heat signature. Also, be wary of their placement; I see a lot of systems with a "grille" of holes and an attachment point for a fan, however most of these are very largely inefficient because the "grille" has so much resistance to flow it probably relies more on natural convection than forced convection from the fan. So, if you are a case modder, make them holes bigger, and if there are no problems with safety (i.e. no little kids and you don't care) cut a big fat circle where the fan is to blow air out of. Less resistance to flow, higher mass flow rate, higher heat dissipation through forced convection. (Enough engineering terms for ya? 
The effects of the natural climate on computers is obvious. As I understand it, PPH suffers from being in a hot climate, therefore internal system temp is much higher; this gives lower dissipation and higher operating temps. Keep in mind that IMHO operating a CPU up to 60C for extended periods is bearable. Obviously, higher operating temp = lower life expectancy = more possibility of data loss.
Also, if the computer can be situated near an open space or a space which has access to moving air (e.g. a window, but I wouldn't advise it for obvious reasons) then you are going to increase the efficiency of heat removal from the space AROUND the computer, which basically helps cool the computer down more. Pretty common sense huh?
HEAT, FANS AND NOISE:
Obviously, more fans = more noise; more heatsinks = less noise, but lower heat removal (since passive devices like them don't actually do anything, they just store it). So, (that common sense thing again) use as few fans as you can get away with; Try and stick to case-sized fans for EVERYTHING; 80mm+ sized. Also, try to get decent high quality case fans, because earlier models used pretty noise bearings, and impeller design was, well, pretty crappy. Modern ones are usually geared towards silent running. If in doubt, read the specs.
If the fans create too much noise (the CPU fan in particular), consider getting a speed controller. FYI, my Zalman flower runs at ~1750-1800 RPM and in an ambient temp of 27C gives a system temp of 28C and CPU temp of 48C.
CONCLUSION:
Try and keep the inside neat and tidy.
Try and establish clear circulatory routes in the case.
Favour two-fan PSUs if the case design allows for quick transit of CPU hot air into the PSU (and your computer is particularly power-hungry).
Favour large fans over the diddy crappy small ones which whirr and whine loudly.
Consider buyig a well thought out case where you can leave the side off.
Try not to put the case in a badly ventilated corner - this results in a build-up of hot air evacuated from the case - bad.
If in a hot country, consider emmigrating. (Well, a change of scenery is always nice. ;o)
FYI on System Fan: Usually motherboards have TWO fan sockets - one for the CPU, and one for an extra. The "system fan" can pertain to this extra fan, OR it could mean the PSU fan (but I doubt that, since the labelling is a little ambiguous for that).
Lastly, don't knock AMD. I have an XP2600, and it went all the way to 85C without melting - they do in fact have self-protection devices (either that or I owe my motherboard some serious kudos), since otherwise I would have a nice silicon mess after that little mistake where I forgot to connect the fan up.
Still awake?
Go make some more music, damnit.
Yay. |
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g
Member
Topics: 10
Replies: 2037
Registered: 03.Jan.03 |
All I've seen about AMD being worse at handling high temperatures was when tom's hardware tried running an Athlon XP and a P4 without any cooling what so ever. Not even a heatsink. So if you plan on trying to run your CPU without any cooling at all, choose P4.
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Kinetik
Member
Topics: 11
Replies: 219
Registered: 03.Jan.03 |
or buy a dell
dell cases have a tunnel system that sucks the air right off yer cpu and throws it out at the back. best (air) cooling system ive seen so far.. |
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PPH
Member
Topics: 48
Replies: 843
Registered: 13.Jul.03 |
Wow, Gopher! Some long stuff there! I can't read it right now, but I'm going to do that first thing in the morning.
About AMD, I think they can take higer temperatures, but they don't have protection mechanisms, while P4 does have. So, if an AMD overheats, it will just burn. That's not so easy with a P4. By the way: my CPU went to 81º because I turned it off. Had I let it go on, it would have gone higher 
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-John Galt, "Atlas Shrugged", by Ayn Rand |
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Cdnalsi
Member
Topics: 239
Replies: 2221
Registered: 17.Jan.03 |
well, i have a p4 too, (at 2.4Ghz)
lot's of people told me i'm crazy about cooling, but look here:
i have a copper cooler on the box of my p4.
+ one on the middle left side of my tower...
+ one near the power fan
+ two on two hdds
mathly that's 5 coolers, besides the regular ones...
the results?
well, this summer when outside they were like 35-40 degrees celcius...
my mainboard and cpu were cooled to 20-25...
how do you like that? eh?
;)
my 2 cents..
In music one must think with the heart and feel with the brain.
-- George Szell
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Gopher
Member
Topics: 24
Replies: 1540
Registered: 05.Jan.03 |
I heard about someone with ten fans. But thats what happens in hotter climates. I seem to remember he was in Arizona or something.
I'm still a bit curious as to whether AMD chips have a heat cut-off system; I certainly didn't turn mine off when it hit 85C so either the my mobo (A7N8X-X) has a temp monitor or the chip does indeed have a crude cut-off to stop it from burning up.
KinetiK: I would advise against getting a dell; from what I hear they are a lot of trouble if the user is keen to upgrade without going back to Dell, since IIRC a lot of their components are built to spec and very intolerant of user upgrades. That said, though I haven't seen the "tunnel" system, sticking a two-fan PSU with the "sucker" fan next to the CPU has a similar aerodynamic effect.
Yay. |
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Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
The best PC is always going to be one you buy in separete parts and piece together I find.
Atlantis Atlantean Records .: extant music beyond existence
Software: Renoise, Sony Sound Forge 7.0, Sony Vegas 5.0, Waves Masters 4.0, SpinAudio RoomVerb M2 2.0
Hardware: P4 1.6 GHz 512 MB 740 GB ViewSonic G90F+, MOTU 828mkII FireWire, AKG K 240 S |
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/
Member
Topics: 9
Replies: 101
Registered: 02.Jan.03 |
| I had the same problem before a week, my cpu temprature was 81 - 85° and the computer was restarting all the time, so i bought a new cooler (volcano extreme) and now it has only 28° if the ventilator in on full, but its to loud on full, so i have it a bit more then on a quarter and it has 36° now. but when im playing a game then it has 50° on a bighest heat ! Today it is a bit colder and it has only 45° when playing a game. |
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Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
The CPU is always working, no matter how intense the calculations are (playing a game, rendering a 96 kHz 24 bit multi-track audio project etc.). The only thing affecting the fluctuations in temperature would be the tempterature of the room.
So back on topic: PPH, it wouldn't have been just because of this one "intensive CPU algorithm" you were running, but rather just a co-incidence.
Atlantis Atlantean Records .: extant music beyond existence
Software: Renoise, Sony Sound Forge 7.0, Sony Vegas 5.0, Waves Masters 4.0, SpinAudio RoomVerb M2 2.0
Hardware: P4 1.6 GHz 512 MB 740 GB ViewSonic G90F+, MOTU 828mkII FireWire, AKG K 240 S |
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