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Chris Edberg
  Member
Topics: 47
Replies: 2575
Registered: 04.Aug.03 |
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PPH wrote on 12 Sep. (20:00) :
Of course, in the end, it's a matter of opinion, and therefore, subjective. In general, I don't like the reporting system. If someone wants to give a 10, it's their right. BUT, if someone wants to complain that someone gave a 10, it's their right too.
My suggestion is this: if you're thinking of giving a 10, do yourself a question:
"Is there a piece of music in the whole history of music that is better than this one?"
If the answer is "yes", then it's not a 10. It's a 9.5 max.
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Reading this, it reminds me of that everyone has a different view of how a 10 song is. If I had the same standard as PPH I would probably never rate a song 10 at CTG. Nothing negative ment against PPH, we actually need guys like him to compensate the "overraters". And even though I've never rated a song at CTG a 10 iether (out of 226 reviews), I could do it if the song was perfect in all areas but still not beat my 100 favourite songs.
Not so funny signature. |
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Chris Edberg
Member
Topics: 47
Replies: 2575
Registered: 04.Aug.03 |
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obScene wrote on 12 Sep. (21:26) :
I'm too lazy to donwload these songs and give a valid argument.  but I want to make only one point.
In the event a record label, professional producer, etc. comes to CTG.. we would like there to be a relevant rating system. If someone went and downloaded a track that was rated 9.85 only to find it's not really that great of a song, this may deter them from looking at other songs / artists.
It would be nice that scores 9+ represent only the BEST, the cream of the crop. It's for this reason that songs with less than 3 reviews don't appear on the "Best Rated Songs" chart. But still the number of "high raters" seems to have increased, and at the same time some of the more stubborn and hard-nosed raters ( myself included ) have gotten lazy and review very little. I havent done a review in a few weeks.. but I will get back to reviewing heavy if others will do the same. This is the only way to keep the balance IMO. |
Very good points, I agree on all this.
However, I have got lazy as well, but have some things to take care of IRL first. Hopefully I can start reviewing again soon.
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xerxes
Member
Topics: 39
Replies: 551
Registered: 03.Sep.03 |
Whirloop wrote on 12 Sep. (18:52) :
new, unexperienced people rate higher cause they don't have the experience in producing and don't really know what's good or bad. |
this is a joke right? are you saying that ppl who dont produce music themselves, or have just started cant listen to music and judge for themselves what is good and what is not?
bah.
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acecream
 Staff / Moderator
Topics: 391
Replies: 3361
Registered: 27.Dec.02 |
xerxes wrote on 12 Sep. (22:45) :
Whirloop wrote on 12 Sep. (18:52) :
new, unexperienced people rate higher cause they don't have the experience in producing and don't really know what's good or bad. |
this is a joke right? are you saying that ppl who dont produce music themselves, or have just started cant listen to music and judge for themselves what is good and what is not?
bah.
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I belive it partly is right. Since when you are not really into production you wont notice the little details, stereo tricks and so on. Also it is hard to judge the structure and tehnical aspects of the song. But offcourse you know what is good or bad but mostly based on you subjective opinion (i like melodie, i dont like drums, ...).
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roncli
Administrator
Topics: 55
Replies: 751
Registered: 18.Dec.03 |
Everybody chill out!  Geez! 
NuB's will be NuB's. They will either learn that a review with a 10 should be taken seriously, or their reviewing will be held without any respect. They can whine about it all they want, until they learn, no one's going to care about what they have to say about a song.
But they are not all at fault. On a site that allows 10/10 reviews to pass without a second, third, or fourth opinion is, eventually, going to be plagued with 10/10 reviews. And even if the site would control 10's, you're still gonna get hit with 9.5's. If the site doesn't indicate a 10 is a special rating, it's not going to be treated as one by all of the reviewers.
How do you combat 10 ratings? Review the song yourself. If you don't have time, ask someone who does (try the top reviewer's list!). If the review is of low quality, report it. Don't just let it stand, else complaining about it is nothing more than whining.
-roncli |
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Analysis
 Artist
Topics: 72
Replies: 6282
Registered: 16.Mar.03 |
Could have been my words roncli. I totally agree.
 (328 hits)Review my new song, ya freaks! |
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xerxes
Member
Topics: 39
Replies: 551
Registered: 03.Sep.03 |
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acecream wrote on 12 Sep. (22:50) :
xerxes wrote on 12 Sep. (22:45) :
Whirloop wrote on 12 Sep. (18:52) :
new, unexperienced people rate higher cause they don't have the experience in producing and don't really know what's good or bad. |
this is a joke right? are you saying that ppl who dont produce music themselves, or have just started cant listen to music and judge for themselves what is good and what is not?
bah.
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I belive it partly is right. Since when you are not really into production you wont notice the little details, stereo tricks and so on. Also it is hard to judge the structure and tehnical aspects of the song. But offcourse you know what is good or bad but mostly based on you subjective opinion (i like melodie, i dont like drums, ...).
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we're chill
subjective opinion is ofcourse what makes the rating system very hard to make fair, or you could also say that its subjective opinion that makes it more fair than anything. take a pick
now ace, i really have to disagree strongly with you! someone who is interested in music, but not making it himself, has actiually MORE experience listening than we have. because we spend a lot of time making what they listen to. if you make a stereo effect, or a resonated delay effect, does that mean the listener wont catch it because he havent ever made an effect like that himself? bottom line is: when the song is done, it will sound EXACTLY the same to the listener and the composer...
my point being, if you produce music, there is no way you can judge what is good and what is not BETTER than someone who just likes listening to music. NO WAY IN HELL
if you produce, you may point out nice things the composer has done, or suggest different techniques... but that has nothing to do with how good or bad the music is.
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Analysis
Artist
Topics: 72
Replies: 6282
Registered: 16.Mar.03 |
I think that persons who are new to this site simply dont know the standards. That's the main problem, and I really have no idea how to fix it, but to wait, as they use the site more and get more known with our standards. Right now, we need a few persons who will start reviewing to compensate the overating frenzy.
(328 hits)Review my new song, ya freaks! |
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etyrnal
Artist
Topics: 11
Replies: 134
Registered: 25.Jul.03 |
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DDspeed wrote on 12 Sep. (18:10) :
Rifflections: It's not about communism, but new reviewers often don't have the idea on the average quality of the songs on CTG. I can tell - I were the same when I came here and all of my earliest reviews suck.
If new reviewers will be constantly coming and rating the songs with 10, CTG will loose respect from the feedback receivers, who appreciate real criticism more than ultra-good rating with no good reason.
And Ace won't kick those people in their asses, he will probably just send them some advice.
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iy you feel so strongly about "bringing people's scores 'down to earth'" - then you can fix it yourself by going and giving the song the score you feel it deserves - and this bring the score down via the averaging method...
besides if all of the 'know-better veterans' were doing their veteran jobs of reviewing more music instead of just being reviewed - then those occasional TENS would get averaged down.
jeeze!
the scores are averaged right?
i am not an olympic judging official who is using a slide-rule and a motion-digitizer to analyze music for it's Universal Phase Coherency Coefficient... i am a musician (barely) who appreciates music....
it's like favorite colors and favorite foods - all VERY subjective...
and should there be a requirement that before one is allowed to write reviews - they must listen to ALL songs on this site so we know if there is a better one? or a worse one?
in the end - it ALL comes down to opinion. as i was so heavily informed of recently.
yeah - there are loads of musical rules and formulas and guidelines... but just because a song is Scientifically aligned with the form of the average top-charting song - does NOT mean that I should like it... i fact i do NOT like most music that tops charts... which is exactly why i am here... to leave the "it follows the form of the best charting music perfectly - so it must be considered good" mentality behind.
Should Jazz get low ratings just because it doesn't sell as much as Mich. jackson??
i didn't come here to get a mini version of the commercial world...
i came for the MUSIC - not the 'rules' and the 'must' and the 'should' ...
"Dear artist, the rating that i gave you, based upon the approval of the community at large, is 5. You did a mediocre job, by the standards of the experts. The opinion of the reviewer has been withheld to align himself more with the opinions of the experts. "
i hate being told that my personal preferences are 'wrong'...
"Oh, so you like blue? Well you really should not like blue, because most people feel that blue is not as likable as you consider it to be. Please reconsider your appreciation of color. It would be better for the community at large if you might consider liking yellow a bit more, as we see this as a more fitting and beneficial color for the masses. We appreciate your cooperation."
"The preceding opinion has been provided by the network and does not necessarily reflect an actual opinion. Should you disagree with the opinions expressed herein, please consult your local Option Control Center.
 
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etyrnal
Artist
Topics: 11
Replies: 134
Registered: 25.Jul.03 |
Analysis wrote on 13 Sep. (0:00) :
I think that persons who are new to this site simply dont know the standards. That's the main problem, and I really have no idea how to fix it, but to wait, as they use the site more and get more known with our standards. Right now, we need a few persons who will start reviewing to compensate the overating frenzy.
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so the intent of those reviews would be to overshadow another's opinion?
instead of reviewing based upon the desire to make some comments about a song?
sound like someone needs to recuse themselves... how can one adjudicate fairly if they are reviewing for that purpose?
if there was no interest in reviewing a track BEFORE it received a disagreed-with review - and now all of the sudden the track is being reviewed just to 'even the score' - hmmmmm...
some motive.
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