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Atlantis
  Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
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Write your thoughts here.
Mine are that it's always something I've wondered. I know in the end it's mostly subjective, but are there some set rules as to what makes a good melody as well?
I recall some reviews written by PPH (the melody enthusiast) saying that the song has "good melodies, but they're not that great, or not that memorable". So that brings up one issue: it should be a memorable one. But not in a pop music kind of way I hope? 
I also think there is a lot more to it, mostly compositional elements like counterpoint and harmony. Inverting a hook part of the melody, reversing it, transposing it...who knows what. I'm no expert on all this, but the other day VP said he didn't like a melody in a track of his, and I couldn't fully agree. So what does make a good melody? How can I compose the perfect melody?
And don't tell me to compose the melody first, cos I can't.  Chords, drums, and the general foundation of a song are really what I do best, and I can usually build a melody on top of that, but how can I make more exceptional melodies?
I think the techniques I've got well under control are to go with the notes of the chord (and thus the scale), which is easy enough. But also I use...what do you call it, when the notes in the melody are 1 tone or semitone off from a note used in the chord. Also I usually tend to create smooth-flowing melodies (stepwise I think it's technically called) since I'm a bit wary of using large steps such as fifths or octaves. But recently I was experimenting with that and it does heighten the emotional content.
Maybe I just need to learn some new techniques when it comes to composing better melodies that don't end up sounding the same as all my previous ones?
Atlantis Atlantean Records .: extant music beyond existence
Mixing engineer/multi-band professor .: PM me for all your mastering needs or tips |
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Void Pointer
 Artist
Topics: 68
Replies: 5292
Registered: 08.Feb.03 |
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Actually, it totally depends on a few things. You might consider the style, instrument and even the importance of the instrument (I mean a lead needs to be more "catchy" then a backing instrument). That bell what were you talking about, is one of that backing instruments. It needs to have some sort of monotoneus pattern throughout the song (a little like the voice pluck in Xerxes - Defuse), my melody however was like it was playing random notes. Too much differences in tone.
I wonder. How can you compare melodies from Jazz to Trance? Trance keeps playing the same melody over again (or atleast, in rough schales). But in Jazz it's all like it's being jammed. Constantly moving and progressing (heh, corrrect me if I'm wrong  ). So, how do you define a good melody? I don't know, it's all a matter of taste. Some like catchy stuff (trance), some like more moving stuff (Jazz, Nifflas ).
I actually like both, as long as it's executed good.
http://www.fusion-records.org |
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Cooth
Member
Topics: 59
Replies: 3588
Registered: 02.Jan.03 |
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Atlantis wrote on 22 Oct. (11:14) :
I recall some reviews written by PPH (the melody enthusiast) saying that the song has "good melodies, but they're not that great, or not that memorable". So that brings up one issue: it should be a memorable one. But not in a pop music kind of way I hope?
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I like improvised melodies, which sometimes are pretty impossible to remember. But I still love them, in a little different kinda way. If something is very complex and irregular, not too schematised, it is very hard to remember, but can sound damn good. So I don't think a melody necessarily has to be memorable.
However there should be something to make it distinct somehow, and when you go back to it you say "AH! It's the song." I'm not sure if it always has to be just the progression of notes, maybe it's also a matter of arrangement, general sound, mood.
I also think there is a lot more to it, mostly compositional elements like counterpoint and harmony. Inverting a hook part of the melody, reversing it, transposing it...who knows what. I'm no expert on all this, but the other day VP said he didn't like a melody in a track of his, and I couldn't fully agree. So what does make a good melody? How can I compose the perfect melody?
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You cannot create a perfect thing, so why be bothered by that?
You just need to do what will match your vision of the song's mood, feeling, atmosphere, character. Isn't that enough? While looking for perfection you can change something that was really yours and personal.
Maybe I just need to learn some new techniques when it comes to composing better melodies that don't end up sounding the same as all my previous ones?
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Learning more techniques can't be bad. But don't rely only on techniques and tricks. Be creative in the first place. If you learn tricks invented by others, that's doesn't guarantee you will make something unique.
Hey, I'm not saying it's easy... The best thing is to try and try... I've been trying for quite some time now and I'm pretty frustrated...  And it's so hard to come up with something new. But oh well, that's life.
They say the power of the unsaid can be greater than of what's been said.
That's obvious actually - for each word you just uttered, there are thousands of words you didn't utter. |
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obScene
Member
Topics: 137
Replies: 3482
Registered: 08.Aug.03 |
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I get that alot, "nice melody but not very memorable" ... I think its not possible to make a melody that will stick in everyone's head afterwards, maybe that has more to do with the listener than the artist.... but on the other hand its easy to make a melody that definatoly won't stick in the head.
I think one important thing in a melody is that is has to be the central focus of the rest of the music, where each part is merely accompanying it. Ideally the entire rhtyhm, chord structure, etc should be used to accent and/or alter the listeners experience of the melody. I think the way most of us compose ( myself included ) is done exactly the wrong way to accomplish this. Any time someone sends me a preview or beginning of a new project, its almost always the chords/percussion/bass that they've created first, no matter what the genre.
It seems this is the most common way, to develop the sound and atmosphere of the song first, and then when you have something you like you start trying to put in a melody, and then finally developing a strcuture for the song. Not that anything is wrong with this, it's the way I almost always work too  , but I think this is fatal for any attempt of creating a truly amazing melody.
Personally, I suck at making melodies, which is why half of my songs on CTG are remakes of my older songs, or at least contain melodies from them.
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a98
Artist
Topics: 32
Replies: 2725
Registered: 26.Oct.03 |
the thing is, all these radio songs you'll hear them 10 times /day, so naturally it gets stuck on your head.. but in ctg you hardly listen songs more than once.
www.subco.org/a98 (2545 hits) |
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Vegaro
Member
Topics: 48
Replies: 661
Registered: 05.May.04 |
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The enemy of good is perfect..
So don't trash good melodies just cuz they're not perfect.
I like emotional melodies, so something that plays on a minoric chord progression and climbs to climaxes and then anti climaxes usually catches me.
But when u listen to traditional music, u know, melodies that survived the test of time and engraved themselves in the minds of people, u usually notice they're often not complex at all, and do not use emotional tricks such as i described in the paragraph above.
Also, I think that a very good chord progression is required in order to get a good melody. But some melodies are so good, they sound good even without it.
I guess another problem is that sometimes a good melody only sounds good once u get a bit used to it..
Last thing, don't try to force yourself to do stuff that are against ur nature.. it will most probably not sound good, and it will take you 10 times more work than just flowing with ur own style. If ur worried about sounding the same, try to incorporate ideas and techniques from other people into ur music, it workes for me, atleat. Also, don't worry too much about sounding the same. So what if u do? ur probably the only one who notices that.
just some haphazard thoughts thrown here... nothing in particular order.
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Nifflas
Member
Topics: 80
Replies: 1599
Registered: 05.Mar.04 |
imo there's nothing bad, good, or perfect. It's all about what you want to express. So if someone says your melody is bad, they say "don't express this, express something else instead". That's why I don't review anymore, and strongly dislike with the whole idea that a melody can be good or bad.
Different music styles also usually have different melodies. Like the average trance tune, which has a lead everyone can remember after a listen or two, or the jazz tune with a non-repeative melody which takes lots of time, before you even start to remember parts of. Both those examples, isn't limited to their music style, and can be experimented with, and used in other genres where it doesn't "belong".
That's one example of many, how new genres devlops.
Fortunately, my music is much more interesting than my posts. |
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nait08
Member
Topics: 16
Replies: 1035
Registered: 17.Oct.03 |
Mmhh.. somehow I never have any problems to come up with a, in my opinion, good melody. And I'm nearly always totally satisfied with my ideas (don't know what others think though) I don't follow any "rules" at all, I just take the guitar or piano, play some chords and the melody is there (in my head) immediately. Then I play/hum it to my girlfriend and let her improvise some lyrics and sing to it (she's been in a jazzband for some years )
Then, when I play the chords to my gf again a couple of days later and she still remembers the melody, I know it must be kinda catchy So, I usually think of the melody first, then the structure (and lyrics sometimes) and then I finally get to work on it.
But, to answer your question: I don't know what makes a good melody. But I'm sure that being memorable doesn't have anything to do with sounding like pop music. It's the music that sounds like pop, not the melody.
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Nifflas
Member
Topics: 80
Replies: 1599
Registered: 05.Mar.04 |
I do it the same way as nait. Improvise. I don't think at all.
Fortunately, my music is much more interesting than my posts. |
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Chris Edberg
Member
Topics: 47
Replies: 2575
Registered: 04.Aug.03 |
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Write your thoughts here.
Mine are that it's always something I've wondered. I know in the end it's mostly subjective, but are there some set rules as to what makes a good melody as well?
I recall some reviews written by PPH (the melody enthusiast) saying that the song has "good melodies, but they're not that great, or not that memorable". So that brings up one issue: it should be a memorable one. But not in a pop music kind of way I hope? |
I think good melodies exists in many genres, and that's why I like many genres. What makes them good is probably some kind of pattern, special choises of notes.
If we formulate the question to "What makes a good song", it doesn't need to contain a catchy melody. Some songs could be awesome to listen to for the moment, but when we shut it off we dont remember anything special. It's then mainly about atmospheres and moods I think.
However I think the greatest songs doesn't deliver just one melody, but several ones - that still flows on throughout the whole song. Adequate is a word I would like to add; the best songs deliver the melodies in not too fast or too slow tempo, together with neither not too soft or too hard instruments. And then everything has to fit the mood as well. Finally, good melodies sounds often a lot stronger with good lyrics. I've found this phenomenon mainly in pop music. Unfortunately it's very rare with good pop songs nowadays.
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I also think there is a lot more to it, mostly compositional elements like counterpoint and harmony. Inverting a hook part of the melody, reversing it, transposing it...who knows what. I'm no expert on all this, but the other day VP said he didn't like a melody in a track of his, and I couldn't fully agree. So what does make a good melody? |
Like Cooth mentioned, first you must know which mood you're looking for. Joy, sadness, triumph, love, anger, anxiety, sorrow, fear, nostalgia, defeat, hope, melancholy, death, etc. And I think a good melody shines the best with the help of at least some background arrangement; mainly background chords and bass.
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How can I compose the perfect melody? |
Let's say if I create a perfect melody, which I think is perfect. Will everyone think it is perfect? If you ask me, the perfect melody has already been composed. Man, even the perfect song. Not by me though, which bugs me off lol... So, my goal in life is to make up with something better.
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And don't tell me to compose the melody first, cos I can't. Chords, drums, and the general foundation of a song are really what I do best, and I can usually build a melody on top of that, but how can I make more exceptional melodies? |
Well a common problem I have is that I may think a bit too mathematicly, or what to say... I just "look" what I've done and write a melody out from it. Ok, it will sound "right", but there will be no emotion in it. Therefore, just try to "feel" the melody instead. Think of something and/or feel of something (lol)... Then try to put the images, which hopefully shows up in front of you, to music.
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I think the techniques I've got well under control are to go with the notes of the chord (and thus the scale), which is easy enough. But also I use...what do you call it, when the notes in the melody are 1 tone or semitone off from a note used in the chord. Also I usually tend to create smooth-flowing melodies (stepwise I think it's technically called) since I'm a bit wary of using large steps such as fifths or octaves. But recently I was experimenting with that and it does heighten the emotional content. |
I did not understand anything here, but that could be the lack of musical theory knowledge (from my side.)
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Maybe I just need to learn some new techniques when it comes to composing better melodies that don't end up sounding the same as all my previous ones? |
You seem to have the same thoughts and problems as me. I feel like I'm giving tips to myself, hehe. Musically, my music end up not very unsimiliar relating to each other. I recently found out that working with already sung vocals, forcing you to adapt certain chords and stuff to it, is like open doors to new melodic sides. However if you know music theory already (which I don't) it should be easier to make songs more unfamiliar relating to each other.
On the other hand, like someone else mentioned in this thread, don't force to change yourself. Be yourself when composing, if everything turns out the same, then that's only great so people will recognize your musicstyle. Of course it's fun to try new stuff, but let you develope yourself naturally.
Anyhow... Maybe not 100% on topic but I found a nice article about music: http://www.ilu.uu.se/ilu/montessori/MthePow.htm (685 hits)
Not so funny signature. |
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