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Cooth
  Member
Topics: 59
Replies: 3588
Registered: 02.Jan.03 |
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Gopher, if I got you right, I can say I've been asking myself the same question many times when trying to make a track. Sometimes it just looks this way: I'm going forth into the darkness, I feel I don't really like what the melody is starting to sound like, but I don't delete it, just continue through the woods.  This way, that way, another way. But I don't make a step back, hoping that even though it doesn't sound great for me from the very start, it may finally get an acceptable shape. I think it can give some results; as I listen to some of my "forced" WIPs after some time, I don't hate them that much and I want to continue them.
PPH: not that I'm original or anything  , but what you say seems rather obvious. Melodies that would come to my mind just like that are always rather standard, not to say cheesy. Admittedly, I tend to leave them cheesy, usually when I simply like them being that way (Sometimes I simply don't want to do anything especially new).
Anyway, my way of writing melodies is really different from yours - I don't do any theoretical thinking, maybe except sticking to some chords. - in my case it's usually either playing a keyboard and looking for ideas/inspiration and then record them in realtime (then I make more 'obvious' melodies), sometimes it's just trying things in a tracker (there are dangers then though: eg. that the melody will sound too chaotic and "incoprehensible" the next day). Doing things this way, I always mess up with ideas, there is nothing like one idea for the whole melody - I don't think I've ever known the whole melody before starting to track it.
I would put a tax on all people who post to forums.
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Ooh!! |
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1up
 Artist
Topics: 129
Replies: 1022
Registered: 23.Jan.04 |
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Cooth wrote on 09 Feb. (14:05) :
...I'm going forth into the darkness, I feel I don't really like what the melody is starting to sound like, but I don't delete it, just continue through the woods. This way, that way, another way. But I don't make a step back, hoping that even though it doesn't sound great for me from the very start, it may finally get an acceptable shape. |
This is true for me to. Sometimes I try to really _think_ a melody into the world  but that always bring down freaks. hehe Not thinking when composing works best for me. That way all concentration is where it is supposed to be, in the music and moment.
Using the iterativ approach as you mention Cooth is the way I work too. Rarely ever a melody is complete when it 'arrives' , but you have to polish it and repolish it again for it to be enjoyable. Perhaps sometimes we can all write songs like Beethoven in a stright forward manner from start to finish without going back. That is really amazing.
Catch That Amish!
http://www.ctgmusic.com/song.php?id=5624
1up's Artist Grounds
http://www.ctgmusic.com/artist.php?id=967 |
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PPH
Member
Topics: 48
Replies: 843
Registered: 13.Jul.03 |
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Cooth wrote on 09 Feb. (14:05) :
Gopher, if I got you right, I can say I've been asking myself the same question many times when trying to make a track. Sometimes it just looks this way: I'm going forth into the darkness, I feel I don't really like what the melody is starting to sound like, but I don't delete it, just continue through the woods. This way, that way, another way. But I don't make a step back, hoping that even though it doesn't sound great for me from the very start, it may finally get an acceptable shape. I think it can give some results; as I listen to some of my "forced" WIPs after some time, I don't hate them that much and I want to continue them.
PPH: not that I'm original or anything , but what you say seems rather obvious. Melodies that would come to my mind just like that are always rather standard, not to say cheesy. Admittedly, I tend to leave them cheesy, usually when I simply like them being that way (Sometimes I simply don't want to do anything especially new).
Anyway, my way of writing melodies is really different from yours - I don't do any theoretical thinking, maybe except sticking to some chords. - in my case it's usually either playing a keyboard and looking for ideas/inspiration and then record them in realtime (then I make more 'obvious' melodies), sometimes it's just trying things in a tracker (there are dangers then though: eg. that the melody will sound too chaotic and "incoprehensible" the next day). Doing things this way, I always mess up with ideas, there is nothing like one idea for the whole melody - I don't think I've ever known the whole melody before starting to track it.
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I don't do any theoretical thinking either. I just used the words "dominant" and "tonic" because it was the only way I found to say what I wanted to say. I meant using a note that doesn't "end" the phrase, that doesn't "rest" and allows you to go on with the melody. This kind of note is, usually, a note of the dominant chord. That doesn't mean, while I'm making the melody, I think "hey, I'll put the dominant here". Generally I'm not even aware of what the scale I'm using is From what you're saying, the only difference between your way and my way is that you record the melody in real time. I never do that. Also, I've developed the habit of composing the while melody in my head. It's a good habit, although, sometimes, I compose the while track in my head and afterwards am too lazy to track it 
From Darkness To Light, my newest track.
"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine"
-John Galt, "Atlas Shrugged", by Ayn Rand |
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1up
Artist
Topics: 129
Replies: 1022
Registered: 23.Jan.04 |
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PPH wrote on 09 Feb. (14:27) :
I've developed the habit of composing the while melody in my head. It's a good habit, although, sometimes, I compose the while track in my head and afterwards am too lazy to track it
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Really? That's amazing!
I can think in melodies but entire _songs_?   That doesn't come without skill. Sometimes when I go to bad and start to relax a song pop up in my head. I play around with it some in my head, adding drums and brass sections as I go but the song only lasts for so long, then it disappears. I simply don't remember it anymore.
I have to try out your method of composing in the head. That way you can polish the parts without tireless recording and editing in Cubase. Talk about a time saver! Let's hope my mind is up for the challenge!
This became an unexpected interesting topic. PPH, could you explain how your head-arrangement-procedure work? Or to be more on topic, let's talk about just the melody line.
Catch That Amish!
http://www.ctgmusic.com/song.php?id=5624
1up's Artist Grounds
http://www.ctgmusic.com/artist.php?id=967 |
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Cooth
Member
Topics: 59
Replies: 3588
Registered: 02.Jan.03 |
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PPH wrote on 09 Feb. (14:27) :
I don't do any theoretical thinking either. I just used the words "dominant" and "tonic" because it was the only way I found to say what I wanted to say. I meant using a note that doesn't "end" the phrase, that doesn't "rest" and allows you to go on with the melody. This kind of note is, usually, a note of the dominant chord. That doesn't mean, while I'm making the melody, I think "hey, I'll put the dominant here".
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Well yeah, that much I think too, I was rather referring to those "question" and "answer" things. Dunno if that's an official thing or just your own, but I see it already as some theory.
I've developed the habit of composing the while melody in my head. It's a good habit, although, sometimes, I compose the while track in my head and afterwards am too lazy to track it
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...and here is the main difference.  I believe it may result from insufficient hearing experience - I often can't imagine/recall how a Dm7 would sound after G or something, I have to try it in a tracker on with a keyboard to make some decision.
That said, big respect to you for being able to create a whole song in your head.
I would put a tax on all people who post to forums.
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Ooh!! |
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Gopher
Member
Topics: 24
Replies: 1540
Registered: 05.Jan.03 |
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Creating songs in your head isn't as hard as it sounds. When I'm really frustrated, I use an existing song as a jumping block to work out something new; For instance, I thought of my old tracker song Conquest of Farakhan, but instead of following it to the note I went off on a tangent and just let your mind freely associate with whatever as you go.
Unfortunately, even if you get that far, usually by the time I get to somewhere where I can score it, I've completely forgotten what I've done.
But to elaborate, when I say "force" a piece of music, I mean like this:
You spend 2 hours writing something. When you give it a listen, the results are... tenuous, to say the least. Certain parts sound interesting, but the way in which it all mixes just sounds terrible.
In the morning, you listen to it, and it sounds even worse than the day before - totally shite.
By forcing a track, I mean spending a lot of time which doesn't sound good, doesn't "feel" good and making it sound decent.
http://www.dragonslay.co.uk/
http://www.ctgmusic.com/Gopher
http://www.dimlight.net/
More soon |
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1up
Artist
Topics: 129
Replies: 1022
Registered: 23.Jan.04 |
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Gopher wrote on 10 Feb. (7:09) :
But to elaborate, when I say "force" a piece of music, I mean like this:
You spend 2 hours writing something. When you give it a listen, the results are... tenuous, to say the least. Certain parts sound interesting, but the way in which it all mixes just sounds terrible.
In the morning, you listen to it, and it sounds even worse than the day before - totally shite.
By forcing a track, I mean spending a lot of time which doesn't sound good, doesn't "feel" good and making it sound decent.
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Making a part of a song and then finding out it sounds sub average happens often, but I tend to see the songs like visions. That is, I know it sounds terrible, but on the other hand, I know it would sound good with better fitting instruments, mixing and general polishing. Seeing it that way the songs become better than they really are at the moment. So you could say I often work like you say, but the visionary thinking applied to it makes it easier to accomplish.
Coming to think of it, I never delete songs. I tend to work on them until they are worthy of keeping, that not beeing equal to good though , just that they could be found useful in the future.
Catch That Amish!
http://www.ctgmusic.com/song.php?id=5624
1up's Artist Grounds
http://www.ctgmusic.com/artist.php?id=967 |
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Louigi Verona
Member
Topics: 384
Replies: 3827
Registered: 22.Aug.03 |
I have come up with a good way to write good melodies in your mind without being somewhere at work and forgetting by the time you are home.
You sit there and make a track. It sounds okay, but not much ideas are around. You play around it a bit and then TURN COMPUTER OFF.
When the actual work is finished, you'll find your mind still 'singing'. Free from external stuff, your mind will easily create many melodies at random that fit the chords you've worked on. Compose in your mind for some time and when you are satisfied, turn your computer on and write all the melodies down.
The next morning just see what melodies are good and what are not. The more you compose in your mind, the better composer you'll be.
"If you set your mind to it, you can accomplish anything."
Doc Emmet Brown.
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1up
Artist
Topics: 129
Replies: 1022
Registered: 23.Jan.04 |
Louigi Verona wrote on 10 Feb. (9:11) :
The more you compose in your mind, the better composer you'll be.
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You have some points there, however, I believe using the way that feels best for oneself will generate the best results. Personally, the best melodies have come by improvisation while looping chords. You may say that I could improve by composing in my head, that may be so... So my composing style is that of composing in my mind and recording it simultaneously in Cubase.
I think we should be open minded allowing ourself to use the tools yielding the best results. A famous movie score composer, I believe he was/is Italian, once wrote 'you need to write your music with a pen and paper to be a real musician'. Using a piano wasn't allowed. I think many popular artists have proven him wrong during the years...
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http://www.ctgmusic.com/song.php?id=5624
1up's Artist Grounds
http://www.ctgmusic.com/artist.php?id=967 |
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Gopher
Member
Topics: 24
Replies: 1540
Registered: 05.Jan.03 |
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He's partially right. I'll expand on that later.
I think I'm just like you guys, but all the frustration has taken away my patience. Normally if I don't get something sounding right first time I just chuck it away, possibly revisiting it a few weeks later. I think it's allied to my great fear of writing crap-sounding music.
With regards to using pen and pencil, thats one way. Another way is improvising at a keyboard. Another way is using a softsynth. I recall an article that PPH posted a while back, (I *think* it was on Thomas Newman, but I might be completely wrong) whereby it was suggested that, in general, one should step away from his usual methods of composition in order for something original to take place. What this means is that when you try doing something a different way, the results may also be different to the usual.
So, doing something on paper and doing something on a computer might not necessarily lead to the same place with the same results.
http://www.dragonslay.co.uk/
http://www.ctgmusic.com/Gopher
http://www.dimlight.net/
More soon |
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