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Forum ~ Spam&Stuff ~ Wanna Wanna Dance-Dance song with a Chippy twist anyone?  |
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|  Wanna Wanna Dance-Dance song with a Chippy twist anyone? [SPAM] | |
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1up
  Artist
Topics: 129
Replies: 1022
Registered: 23.Jan.04 |
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Atlantis wrote on 20 Jul. (13:44) :
1up wrote on 20 Jul. (12:35) :
Atlantis wrote on 20 Jul. (12:07) :
1up wrote on 20 Jul. (10:25) :
Atlantis wrote on 20 Jul. (10:18) :
1up wrote on 20 Jul. (10:09) :
Atlantis wrote on 20 Jul. (9:53) :
My eyes! My eyes! Image blocked, sorry. 
Will check your track when I have some time.  
Atlantis [Atlantean Records - digital audio mastering]
mastering engineer/mixing engineer/multiband professor |
Thanks dude!
Blocked image, how do you mean? Do you think it hurt the eyes?
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I set Firefox to block it. Yeah, my eyes don't appreciate bright colours or flashing things, just as my ears don't appreciate bright frequencies or sharp transients/sudden changes in volume/dynamic sounds. Just a personal thing.
Atlantis [Atlantean Records - digital audio mastering]
mastering engineer/mixing engineer/multiband professor |
loool
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Actually, I don't consider it that funny having reactions to highly dynamic material or being so susceptible to sudden changes in sound intensity.
Anyway, I can't say I liked your track at all I'm afraid. Had a quick listen, but no, this has zero appeal to me. The lyrics, the quality...  The earlier sample you sent me sounded better, but did I not mention anything about removing the rumble?
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 No you didn't. I'm sorry you don't like the final version. So what do you specifically propose I should do raise the song a notch?
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Well, you can't please everyone of course. It seems you've gotten some positive response anyway so it really can't be too bad.
Not exactly sure what you mean with your question though? Basically, you have far too much accumulation in the sub bass and bass range due to heavy effect processing (that master compressor is FAR too overused) and not using high pass and low shelf filters where appropriate. It really clouds the mix and degrades the quality big time.
The sound is also really fatiguing (I can only bare to listen to it for a few seconds at a time, so I have no idea how on earth you've been able to master this?!) and clouded in phase distortion (smuding of transients, i.e. a degrading of sharpness and quality)...just all the things I really dislike to hear.
My advice: Mix the song again from scratch, taking especially more care when using EQ. Not sure exactly what you've done, but regarding EQ, my rule of thumb is never to boost by more than 3 dB, unless really, really neccessary.
Then again, that's just my opinion of course.
Atlantis [Atlantean Records - digital audio mastering]
mastering engineer/mixing engineer/multiband professor |
Well I never seem to get the hang of getting a powerful mix. I just compress and all sounds flat and boring. I compress 3 dB and the mix is still bad. I wanted a phat bass so there's your answer. I used some low shelf too @ -6 dB around 40 hertz I think. Suxors. Ah well, I'll maybe try it later tonight.
Fountain of Youth - Funky Music Video!
http://www.ctgmusic.com/song.php?id=6846
1up's Artist Grounds
http://www.ctgmusic.com/artist.php?id=967 |
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Atlantis
 Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
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1up wrote on 20 Jul. (13:56) :
Well I never seem to get the hang of getting a powerful mix. I just compress and all sounds flat and boring. I compress 3 dB and the mix is still bad. I wanted a phat bass so there's your answer. I used some low shelf too @ -6 dB around 40 hertz I think. Suxors. Ah well, I'll maybe try it later tonight.
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As with anything, the key to making something stand out (e.g. as being loud), is to use contrasting elements. Make everything loud, and it just doesn't seem loud anymore. Follow a quiet section with a loud section however, and all of a sudden you have loudness.
The same applies within a mix itself. Compress the hell out of everything, and you just end up with wimpy loud, but carefully create a contrasting balance between compressed and uncompressed sounds, and you end up with everything - definition, punch, power. In the end, the final quality does depend heavily on the arrangement (i.e. the instruments you choose, playing when, where and how), but careful use of the right mixing techniques can really help out an otherwise poor sounding mix.
What do you mean with "compress 3 dB"? Have the gain reduction meter read this much? It still matters what ratio you use, not to mention attack and release times. If you can't seem to get the hang of setting up a compressor properly, know that it takes years. Don't give up - it'll come to you.
6 dB sounds a little low for a low shelf. Try something closer to -12 dB, though note that I'm just giving general settings here as it all depends on the sound in question. If you're using the Waves Qn however, I recommend to use the high pass setting on all instruments - even the kick and bass.
Don't compress everything to try and achieve loudness. Generally, leave pads and similar backing instruments as is, only really compressing sounds you want to appear in the 'foreground', i.e. being the focus. Often, tutorials tell you to use ratios as high as 8:1 or 10:1, but personally I hardly ever use anything above 6:1 when mixing. Those tutorials are written for 'acoustic' music, i.e. real bass recordings, drums, guitar, vocals etc, which tend to be a lot more sloppy. I mostly tend to use ratios around 4:1 when working with samples and VSTi material, as any more and you'll just end up squashing those important contrasting dynamics out of the material. Also, don't set the attack times too low or you'll just smudge the transients out too much.
It's an art form in itself really, and I can really only suggest so much. In the end, it's the years of experience you go through that will make the difference.
Anyway, got a bit caried away. 
Atlantis [Atlantean Records - digital audio mastering]
mastering engineer/mixing engineer/multiband professor |
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1up
Artist
Topics: 129
Replies: 1022
Registered: 23.Jan.04 |
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Atlantis wrote on 20 Jul. (14:39) :
1up wrote on 20 Jul. (13:56) :
Well I never seem to get the hang of getting a powerful mix. I just compress and all sounds flat and boring. I compress 3 dB and the mix is still bad. I wanted a phat bass so there's your answer. I used some low shelf too @ -6 dB around 40 hertz I think. Suxors. Ah well, I'll maybe try it later tonight.
|
As with anything, the key to making something stand out (e.g. as being loud), is to use contrasting elements. Make everything loud, and it just doesn't seem loud anymore. Follow a quiet section with a loud section however, and all of a sudden you have loudness.
The same applies within a mix itself. Compress the hell out of everything, and you just end up with wimpy loud, but carefully create a contrasting balance between compressed and uncompressed sounds, and you end up with everything - definition, punch, power. In the end, the final quality does depend heavily on the arrangement (i.e. the instruments you choose, playing when, where and how), but careful use of the right mixing techniques can really help out an otherwise poor sounding mix.
What do you mean with "compress 3 dB"? Have the gain reduction meter read this much? It still matters what ratio you use, not to mention attack and release times. If you can't seem to get the hang of setting up a compressor properly, know that it takes years. Don't give up - it'll come to you.
6 dB sounds a little low for a low shelf. Try something closer to -12 dB, though note that I'm just giving general settings here as it all depends on the sound in question. If you're using the Waves Qn however, I recommend to use the high pass setting on all instruments - even the kick and bass.
Don't compress everything to try and achieve loudness. Generally, leave pads and similar backing instruments as is, only really compressing sounds you want to appear in the 'foreground', i.e. being the focus. Often, tutorials tell you to use ratios as high as 8:1 or 10:1, but personally I hardly ever use anything above 6:1 when mixing. Those tutorials are written for 'acoustic' music, i.e. real bass recordings, drums, guitar, vocals etc, which tend to be a lot more sloppy. I mostly tend to use ratios around 4:1 when working with samples and VSTi material, as any more and you'll just end up squashing those important contrasting dynamics out of the material. Also, don't set the attack times too low or you'll just smudge the transients out too much.
It's an art form in itself really, and I can really only suggest so much. In the end, it's the years of experience you go through that will make the difference.
Anyway, got a bit caried away.
Atlantis [Atlantean Records - digital audio mastering]
mastering engineer/mixing engineer/multiband professor |
Thanks dude for your interest and time! What I do is to try compression, the mix sounds thin and not powerful. When I don't use compression the same result: a low volume mix but with more dynamics. So well, things isn't really working along in this compartment.
I'm using high attack times to keep the transients uncompressed and haven't used more than 4 as ratio either. Maybe I just have crappy instruments to begin with. But I'll keep in mind not compressing everything as much.
I just wish I had phat drums...
Fountain of Youth - Funky Music Video!
http://www.ctgmusic.com/song.php?id=6846
1up's Artist Grounds
http://www.ctgmusic.com/artist.php?id=967 |
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Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
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1up wrote on 20 Jul. (14:49) :
Thanks dude for your interest and time! What I do is to try compression, the mix sounds thin and not powerful. When I don't use compression the same result: a low volume mix but with more dynamics. So well, things isn't really working along in this compartment.
I'm using high attack times to keep the transients uncompressed and haven't used more than 4 as ratio either. Maybe I just have crappy instruments to begin with. But I'll keep in mind not compressing everything as much.
I just wish I had phat drums...
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A master compressor should be really subtle, really only serving as tightening the sound by drawing the instruments together, and giving the mix more 'body'. I really recommend a multiband compressor, though if you're after a pumping sound, try following it with a regular compresor. You asked about this before so no need to cover it again, but one of the most important things when applying master compression is not to drag the threshold down too far. Start with a ratio up to around 2:1, and use the threshold to determine the 'amount' of compression. Also, know that you'll be following the compressor with a limiter, so there's no need to drain all the dynamics out of the mix in order to achieve volume - that's what the limiter is for.
Anyway, I really don't think words are going to help you out here. I'm probably only confusing you more. Just learn from your mistakes and keep experimenting and listening. It's the best way to learn.
Atlantis [Atlantean Records - digital audio mastering]
mastering engineer/mixing engineer/multiband professor |
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1up
Artist
Topics: 129
Replies: 1022
Registered: 23.Jan.04 |
|
Atlantis wrote on 20 Jul. (15:05) :
1up wrote on 20 Jul. (14:49) :
Thanks dude for your interest and time! What I do is to try compression, the mix sounds thin and not powerful. When I don't use compression the same result: a low volume mix but with more dynamics. So well, things isn't really working along in this compartment.
I'm using high attack times to keep the transients uncompressed and haven't used more than 4 as ratio either. Maybe I just have crappy instruments to begin with. But I'll keep in mind not compressing everything as much.
I just wish I had phat drums...
|
A master compressor should be really subtle, really only serving as tightening the sound by drawing the instruments together, and giving the mix more 'body'. I really recommend a multiband compressor, though if you're after a pumping sound, try following it with a regular compresor. You asked about this before so no need to cover it again, but one of the most important things when applying master compression is not to drag the threshold down too far. Start with a ratio up to around 2:1, and use the threshold to determine the 'amount' of compression. Also, know that you'll be following the compressor with a limiter, so there's no need to drain all the dynamics out of the mix in order to achieve volume - that's what the limiter is for.
Anyway, I really don't think words are going to help you out here. I'm probably only confusing you more. Just learn from your mistakes and keep experimenting and listening. It's the best way to learn.
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Yeah, I guess it is...
Fountain of Youth - Funky Music Video!
http://www.ctgmusic.com/song.php?id=6846
1up's Artist Grounds
http://www.ctgmusic.com/artist.php?id=967 |
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