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32071614043234
  Member
Topics: 40
Replies: 495
Registered: 03.Dec.03 |
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There are so many factors that come into play...
For example, the time period. A perfect mix 10 years is ago is much different than a perfect mix now. Although equipment that professionals use (excluding software) hasn't changed that much. In 10 years, what is considered a perfect mix now will be something totally different. (Lately the trend has been a less natural, more clear, and digital sound. I miss my fuzzy analogue compressors.)
Another thing, is the genre! Majorly important. I hihat in trance is dealt with way way differently than a hihat in alternative rock. Similarities between genres? Not a lot. Its very variable.
So in truth, I don't think the perfect or a good mix is the real question, because it is very subjective to the point that it shouldn't be asked in my opinion. Perfect and good mixing techniques take a lifetime to develop, its a lot more then formulaic and technical knowledge.
We should ask ourselves, what's a bad mix. That question can be answered much easier than finding the good or perfect mix. If a mix doesn't achieve its purpose effectively, it is a bad mix. If a trance track is so reverb intensive, that it would sound horrible in an arena, it is a bad mix. If a hiphop track has no bass, it could be a bad mix. If a rock track does not have guitars eqed properly, then it could be a bad mix.
But like I said, a mix is completely subjective. It depends on your purpose. I have heard some very gritty dirty alternative that would not be there if it didn't have what many would call a "bad mix" Judging a mix is an extremely fine line that will warp with people's moods, feelings, and overall beliefs.
That's the complicated answer, the simple answer is something close to how something sounds in a professional track. This is the route most beginners take, and it is a pretty good one. Listen to a professional track, then listen to your track, and make adjustments on your track to match the mixing quality of the professional track.
And creative mixing, that's an entirely different story. That's where the line warps once again, even if you are comparing a professional track to your track. Its the difference of comparing DJ Sammy and James Holden. Arcade Fire vs Ashlee Simpson. K-Os vs 50 Cent. Britney Spears vs Bjork.
So, this is a tough question  I think its best to take the logical positivst approach. If it can't be proven 100%, don't try very hard to answer the question. If you think you found the formula to a good mix, it won't apply to every song, every situation, and with time, it could become a bad one. Go with the flow, gain some technical knowledge, read a lot, and work a lot. You will eventually find your own good mix.
anyone can be original, just through weird effects here and there and do everything differently than you have done before |
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Jammyman
 Artist
Topics: 13
Replies: 242
Registered: 14.Sep.03 |
Yeah, nice reply m8 
Now when I think of, thats the thing what I said in that one book thread, I read it, didn't understand much, or did some but after a lot of work suddenly everything makes sense, I can do better mixes, i'm not anywhere near my goal and newer will be, what kind of makes this all so fun 
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xa
Artist
Topics: 54
Replies: 2755
Registered: 08.Jun.04 |
Well said! 
Cliché breeds familiarity
- Redheat |
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Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
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Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
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Kricke wrote on 09 Nov. (11:30) :
Like I said on MSN, my replies here are not directed negatively at anyone. I like this topic. I just had to get an answer on the question to continue the discussion. |
I can take all the negativity in the world. 
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I agree - that's a great way to look at this. But I think I can recall that you've said that I should use another reverb because the reverb of Renoise is "cold" (or something, don't remember exactly.) So, it doesn't matter how I use it, it will not sound satisfying anyway - unless I want to do only cold music. |
Hehe, sounds like something I'd say alright. 
Well, I mean that you can often still work around it somehow. It just depends how much of it you can take, or it being something you may not even notice yet, in which case it doesn't really matter anyway.
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What about the EQ of Renoise? It sucks? |
In my opinion it does, yes. It matches right up there with Reason, and it's interface isn't any better either.
Actually, I wasn't sure exactly what I meant at the time of writing.  But I've given it some more thought, and re 'cold' reverb, you could always try placing an EQ after it to bring some life back into the lower mid frequencies (or cutting the higher mid or treble frequencies), or maybe using a harmonic exciter plugin. Also, keep the level and number of EQ boosts to a minimum, rather focusing on choosing the right sounds, and using 'subtractive EQ' to blend them together. Maybe also add a recorded instrument or vocal, which could help to replace those missing harmonics and bring the mix to life (as I found worked particularly well in the preview you sent me recently). Or, you could just do as Nifflas does.
Anyway, I'm sure there are a million ways to achieve to same result, but what's important is how you get there. Also, certain tools and processes suit different situations, and I think a great deal of it is finding your own sound in that, something I think you're well on your way to doing (from my perspective, that is). 
Atlantis [Atlantean Records - digital audio mastering]
multiband professor/eq professor/Nur-Ab-Sal |
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Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
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Jammyman wrote on 09 Nov. (14:06) :
Atlantis wrote on 09 Nov. (2:01) :
You really don't have to use a hardware compressor to make your music sound good. If anything, the differences are going to be subtle anyway. |
Well, you don't nesessary need compressors at all, but I just need say that you are so wrong
Have you ever tested any old compressor, maybe one with tube? Or anything new expensive? Or anything all (i don't count behringer, but maybe they have some decent ones also)?
I say, you cant really compare them, plugins suck |
I surrender. No, I've never used a hardware compressor, but I obviously hear the use of (quite probably) hardware processors used in the 'professional' music I listen to. I've also heard a hardware compressor more or less first hand when a vocalist sent me samples once, after which I made suggested improvements, and I can definitely say I didn't like what I heard (far too colourful).
Exactly - you can't compare them, I agree. But it's definitely wrong to think that you can't achieve good results using software only - you just need to know how to make good use of it, and certain music styles of course rely more on hardware, while in other cases, software might be the better alternative. That's why a professional producer would ideally make use of both worlds (this isn't directed at you by the way, just in general). 
Atlantis [Atlantean Records - digital audio mastering]
multiband professor/eq professor/Nur-Ab-Sal |
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chosc
Member
Topics: 7
Replies: 75
Registered: 18.Mar.05 |
Hi !
Please,
What is the purpose of a subtractive eq ?
Can you explain to me what a 'subtractive EQ' is and how can i made some in renoise ? |
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Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
chosc wrote on 16 Nov. (9:14) :
Hi !
Please,
What is the purpose of a subtractive eq ?
Can you explain to me what a 'subtractive EQ' is and how can i made some in renoise ? |
Subtractive EQ is just a fancy term referring to EQ with a negative gain change.
Since the ear is more forgiving to cuts in frequencies, it helps to blend sounds together without causing large amounts of phase distortion that could in turn adversely effect the sound - just listen to the sound of the Fruity Parametric EQ for a prime example.
As for how you can do this in Renoise, just keep the gains on the EQ negative, although note that you will often still want to boost the sound where needed too, or you might end up with a too 'cold', or 'flat' sound. I guess this could be quite subjective, and of course dependent on the material, so best is just to experiment and listen. 
Atlantis [Atlantean Records - digital audio mastering]
multiband professor/eq professor/Nur-Ab-Sal |
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chosc
Member
Topics: 7
Replies: 75
Registered: 18.Mar.05 |
Atlantis wrote on 16 Nov. (9:52) :
chosc wrote on 16 Nov. (9:14) :
Hi !
Please,
What is the purpose of a subtractive eq ?
Can you explain to me what a 'subtractive EQ' is and how can i made some in renoise ? |
Subtractive EQ is just a fancy term referring to EQ with a negative gain change.
Since the ear is less forgiving to cuts in frequencies, it helps to blend sounds together without causing large amounts of phase distortion that could in turn adversely effect the sound - just listen to the sound of the Fruity Parametric EQ for a prime example.
As for how you can do this in Renoise, just keep the gains on the EQ negative, although note that you will often still want to boost the sound where needed too, or you might end up with a too 'cold', or 'flat' sound. I guess this could be quite subjective, and of course dependent on the material, so best is just to experiment and listen.
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Hey thanks to you. You have great knowledge man ! I appreciate that. |
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Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
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chosc wrote on 16 Nov. (10:24) :
Atlantis wrote on 16 Nov. (9:52) :
chosc wrote on 16 Nov. (9:14) :
Hi !
Please,
What is the purpose of a subtractive eq ?
Can you explain to me what a 'subtractive EQ' is and how can i made some in renoise ? |
Subtractive EQ is just a fancy term referring to EQ with a negative gain change.
Since the ear is more forgiving to cuts in frequencies, it helps to blend sounds together without causing large amounts of phase distortion that could in turn adversely effect the sound - just listen to the sound of the Fruity Parametric EQ for a prime example.
As for how you can do this in Renoise, just keep the gains on the EQ negative, although note that you will often still want to boost the sound where needed too, or you might end up with a too 'cold', or 'flat' sound. I guess this could be quite subjective, and of course dependent on the material, so best is just to experiment and listen.
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Hey thanks to you. You have great knowledge man ! I appreciate that. |
Oh oops, I meant to say "more" there. 
But yeah, some would say I have great knowledge. I dunno though. 
Thanks anyway, and hope it helped.
Atlantis [Atlantean Records - digital audio mastering]
multiband professor/eq professor/Nur-Ab-Sal |
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