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Forum ~ General ~ Do you still use any older tracking techniques? |
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|  Do you still use any older tracking techniques? [GENERAL] | |
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Novus
  Artist
Topics: 43
Replies: 432
Registered: 05.Jan.03 |
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First of all, thanks to everyone who responded in my topic from yesterday. (I'm still lurking in there, by the way... might even still have a reply or two.)
My question now is more for those people who used to use older-style trackers (FT2, IT, MPT) and have moved on to the more advanced trackers, specifically Renoise, Mad Tracker 2 or Skale (though I don't see many Skalers in here). I've tried out all 3 in the past, so I know they're laid-out quite similarly to the older-style trackers, but of course offer more advanced options, chief among them VST support.
I'm just wondering... with today's widespread use of VSTs, do people still use many of the same sorts of tracking tips and techniques which used to be found in publications such as TraxWeekly, Static Line, The Zen of Tracking, The Trackers Handbook, Zola's old Impulse Tracker For The Compleat Idiot, or even *cringe* my old Tracking Tips page? Or are you pretty much just setting down notes and volume levels and using VSTs for everything else? Or is it some combination of the two?
(And no, I'm still not "back," whatever the fuck "back" means. Meh.)
But hey, I wrote the Novus Manifesto, so what the hell do I know? |
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Louigi Verona
 Member
Topics: 384
Replies: 3845
Registered: 22.Aug.03 |
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From what you wrote I take it you look at modern programms as something that needs no 'tips and tricks' to do music, which is, of course, wrong. I am using FL Studio for 3 years now and I can tell you that the amount of tricks and know-hows there are with the piano roll and the VST is simply enormous. Also, I dunno why is everybody talking only of VSTi. Along with VSTi I use lots of soundfonts and I also use good old wav samples. Actually, I use soundfonts more then anything, but maybe it's just me.
Anyway, on these forums you can still find a topic where I compare tracker layout and the piano roll. I still think piano roll is better but that is just my opinion and my taste. However, working with FL, I have found that I miss vibrato. In a tracker it is easily applied, while in a sequencer like FL it is not a trivial task and will require some external plugin which I don't have or tiny tweaking of the tuning. So I would sometimes use a tracker for that.
And in conclusion, I want to tell you that although I do admire your nostalgia and longing toward the tracking scene, in my opinion you are going to the extremes, idealizing past times and hating modern trends. Today's music productions is not effects and VST which you just 'drop and set volume levels'.
One Voice Compo Site (3372 hits)
Internet is a vast space - there's always room for misunderstanding. |
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Novus
Artist
Topics: 43
Replies: 432
Registered: 05.Jan.03 |
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Well, I was more specifically looking more for people who moved on to Renoise or MT2 or the like, and FL has always hit me as more of a sequencer than a tracker. But at the risk of sparking an oldskool "What exactly defines a 'tracker'?" debate, I'll just say thank you for the reply. 
Louigi Verona wrote on 19 Apr. (5:13) :
...I want to tell you that although I do admire your nostalgia and longing toward the tracking scene, in my opinion you are going to the extremes, idealizing past times and hating modern trends. Today's music productions is not effects and VST which you just 'drop and set volume levels'. |
I think you're missing my point. The whole reason for my threads of yesterday and today is precisely BECAUSE I'm so far behind. See the debate on my website last year; I know you were there, Louigi, I still remember the e-mails.
I don't use the programs myself, I don't use VSTs myself, and I'm just trying to get a handle on how they're used today. The easiest way, I suppose, would be to just use them myself, but I don't want to. So the next best way is to ask around and find out how everyone else is using them.
Believe me, if I was here to preach about the glories of the old days of the tracking scene, I'd be doing so in a much more direct way. Again, see my website last year. But that's not what I'm trying to do right now.
But hey, I wrote the Novus Manifesto, so what the hell do I know? |
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Louigi Verona
Member
Topics: 384
Replies: 3845
Registered: 22.Aug.03 |
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oh, okay. I see your point now.
well, what is particularly good about VST is that many of them deliver something more special then ordinary samples can, like a Real Guitar VST plugin. Apart from having very-very realistic samples, it has different additional functions of, say, adding realistic effects to notes, like the sound of nylon strings against the fingers, etc.
many VST are really synthsizators, so you can produce pads and leads yourself. many of them have wonderful quality and a lot of creative freedom.
but I've noticed that with some VSTi you can't apply any internal tracker/sequencer effects on them, as they don't understand them.
and as for your tracking tips, I believe they are very good - they are imho general enough to be useful to a musician using any kind of software, be it trackers or sequencers or whatever. You also have these weekly tips from famous ppl of the scene - those are also really good and I would advice everybody to study your website thoroughly.
One Voice Compo Site (3372 hits)
Internet is a vast space - there's always room for misunderstanding. |
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sonus
Artist
Topics: 20
Replies: 506
Registered: 26.May.04 |
What sort of "tracker techniques" are you asking about exactly?
I don't really use any funky tricks available only to trackers. I heavily use the 09xx offset command and sometimes a retrigger, but that's not really a trick. It's just the way things are done in trackers.
Other type of stuff I used to do in MPT (faux delay effects for example) are now completely unecessary. Heck, they were unecessary even in MPT as it included support for VST effects during my stint with that software.
My newest tracks:
A New Vision (vocal edit feat. Henriette)
Bounty Killer - Fed Up (sonus remix)
Kcirr3d & Sonus - Project Geestdrijver |
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Novus
Artist
Topics: 43
Replies: 432
Registered: 05.Jan.03 |
sonus wrote on 19 Apr. (6:20) :
What sort of "tracker techniques" are you asking about exactly? |
Exactly the sorts of tricks you just mentioned, actually. You got it. 
But hey, I wrote the Novus Manifesto, so what the hell do I know? |
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Novus
Artist
Topics: 43
Replies: 432
Registered: 05.Jan.03 |
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Louigi Verona wrote on 19 Apr. (6:08) :
...and I would advice everybody to study your website thoroughly. |
Thanks, but I don't want to focus too much on my site per se. It was just one of many websites that basically did the same general thing: offered a static set of generally useful tricks and tips in a centralized and easily-readable format. There were quite a few of such sites open at any given time, each with its own philosophy and tone, so if you didn't like one site for whatever reason, you had other places to go too.
But even then, I'm not so much talking about the sites themselves, but rather the content of those sorts of sites, and whether or not that content is still helpful to people who have graduated from, say, Fast Tracker 2, and moved on to, say, Renoise.
I think you get that, though, as does Sonus. Anyone else?
(I should probably try posting this on the Renoise forums too, etc.)
But hey, I wrote the Novus Manifesto, so what the hell do I know? |
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Cooth
Member
Topics: 59
Replies: 3576
Registered: 02.Jan.03 |
Novus wrote on 19 Apr. (4:46) :
I'm just wondering... with today's widespread use of VSTs, do people still use many of the same sorts of tracking tips and techniques which used to be found in publications such as TraxWeekly, Static Line, The Zen of Tracking, The Trackers Handbook, Zola's old Impulse Tracker For The Compleat Idiot, or even *cringe* my old Tracking Tips page? Or are you pretty much just setting down notes and volume levels and using VSTs for everything else? Or is it some combination of the two?
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Mostly the second. I only use old tracker effects when I want to use samples (eg. to make a pitch bend or vibrato on them). For VSTi, those effects won't work, and besides it's more fun to do with midi keyboard's wheels in realtime. |
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Louigi Verona
Member
Topics: 384
Replies: 3845
Registered: 22.Aug.03 |
well, you don't want to concentrate on your site, but I said it, since I do. Most of the tips sites that used to be around are gone and yours has got a lot of info, like tips, articles and interviews and best mods chart (although many links don't work already, sadly)
as for old techniques, I think I use delay thingie - when you do it manually, not with a plugin. Sometimes you need more control on what's going on and the plugin does things automatically. Personally, I do more hand work then use plugins - I need to feel where, say, delayed notes go.
One Voice Compo Site (3372 hits)
Internet is a vast space - there's always room for misunderstanding. |
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Nifflas
Member
Topics: 80
Replies: 1610
Registered: 05.Mar.04 |
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Mostly the second. I only use old tracker effects when I want to use samples (eg. to make a pitch bend or vibrato on them). For VSTi, those effects won't work, and besides it's more fun to do with midi keyboard's wheels in realtime. |
I'm totally confused about what you mean. You mention your midi keyboards modwheel and pitchwheel, yet say VSTi's (which input midi) doesn't allow vibrato or pitch bend, and the effects has to be done with a tracker.....? Almost any VSTi can receive modwheel (cc1) and pitchbend messages - and if it doesn't work that way, you can usually set up an LFO to modulate the pitch, and controll the LFO speed and depth with two CC's.
 within a deep forest project site. |
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