 |
|  16/44 samples mixed with 24/48 recordings [MUSIC] | |
|
 |
sYnCHAoZ
  Artist
Topics: 1
Replies: 3
Registered: 27.Jul.03 |
 |
Hiya.
I'm pretty much a self-learned musician in every sense of the word, and for the past 6 months I've really been putting in alot of (confusing) effort into improving the overall sound of my mixes. So far I've been working with 16bit 44khz quality in all regards, but recently it dawned upon me that perhaps upping that aspect might help a bit.
But... here's my paradox.
I use Renoise to create all the drumtracks and 'floor' elements of my mixes, and then later record guitars and bass onto that in Cubase. All my Renoise samples are 16bit 44khz quality, so I've always assumed that for compatibility reasons I'd have to record my guitars in 16bit 44khz as well. Is that a wrong assumption?
As in, can I export a 16bit 44khz Renoise mixdown, and then record and mix guitars into that with a 24bit 48khz (or even 96khz maybe? My soundcard can easily handle it), without fuxxoring up the sound?
And furthermore, would it work to export my Renoise track in 24/48 quality, even when the samples used are 16/44?
Thanks in advance. |
|
Atlantis
 Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
|
sYnCHAoZ wrote on 12 Dec. (3:47) :
So far I've been working with 16bit 44khz quality in all regards, but recently it dawned upon me that perhaps upping that aspect might help a bit. |
That's right.
|
I use Renoise to create all the drumtracks and 'floor' elements of my mixes, and then later record guitars and bass onto that in Cubase. All my Renoise samples are 16bit 44khz quality, so I've always assumed that for compatibility reasons I'd have to record my guitars in 16bit 44khz as well. Is that a wrong assumption? |
Well it's true that you can't mix different sample rates and bit depths, but you can easily upsample a sound to a higher sample rate and bit depth, which is what you'll want to do. Or, better yet, render from Renoise at a higher bit depth and (if possible) sample rate.
|
As in, can I export a 16bit 44khz Renoise mixdown, and then record and mix guitars into that with a 24bit 48khz (or even 96khz maybe? My soundcard can easily handle it), without fuxxoring up the sound? |
Most sequencers work at an internal resolution of 32 bit floating point, so whether you open a 16 bit file, or record in 24 bit, the output will still end up in 32 bit float (the lower bits will just be 0's, unless of course you process the sound). Sample rate, however, is a different thing, and you'll likely have to use one common sample rate for the project. You would have to upsample the 44.1 kHz file, or perhaps Cubase is able to do this on the fly, so that you can use a project sample rate of 48 kHz or 96 kHz.
|
And furthermore, would it work to export my Renoise track in 24/48 quality, even when the samples used are 16/44? |
The best advice I can give is to maintain as high a bit depth and sample rate as possible. Even if you start out with a 16 bit sample, processing it will increase the bit depth, and so you'll want to preferably render in 32 bit float. Also, if you're exporting in 16 bit, be sure to enable dither in Renoise (or use a third-party plugin on the master channel), but disable it if you're rendering in 24 bit, because Renoise's dither will still take it back to 16 bit. As I said before though, try to render in 32 bit float, and disable any dither, and use as high a sample rate as your setup will allow. There is a benefit in exporting at 48 kHz if the samples used are at 44.1 kHz, as it minimises aliasing distortion. This was recently covered in this topic, and this topic.
My mind is drifting... |
|
xerxes
Member
Topics: 39
Replies: 551
Registered: 03.Sep.03 |
for those of you who use pro-tools to make your mixdowns, keep in mind that it does NOT support 32-bit float.
cheers,
.x |
|
Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
xerxes wrote on 12 Dec. (7:39) :
for those of you who use pro-tools to make your mixdowns, keep in mind that it does NOT support 32-bit float.
cheers,
.x |
Just use the next available, highest bit depth then. There's a PDF on Pro Tools's 48 bit mixer here, but I haven't had a chance to read it all yet. I believe the TDM bus is limited to 24 bit anyway, so it makes sense that rendering is limited to that also. You can still enable dither, but make sure it's 24 bit dither and not 16 bit dither. And whether to dither to 24 bit depends on if you prefer to add low level hiss-like noise (dither), or get slight low-level, program related, non-linear distortion from quantisation error (truncating). In both cases the noise will be well below anything you could probably hear though.
My mind is drifting... |
|
xa
Artist
Topics: 54
Replies: 2755
Registered: 08.Jun.04 |
Atlantis wrote on 12 Dec. (6:46) :
(the lower bits will just be 0's, unless of course you process the sound)
|
not exactly, since floating point values are usually stored in some exponent+mantissa form.
Increase in efficiency of yours the Internet of a site!
- paradise |
|
Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
xa wrote on 12 Dec. (8:13) :
Atlantis wrote on 12 Dec. (6:46) :
(the lower bits will just be 0's, unless of course you process the sound)
|
not exactly, since floating point values are usually stored in some exponent+mantissa form.
|
You caught me.  I was thinking the same thing after I wrote it, but it holds true for any 16 bit files (at least the extra 8 bits). I just don't know enough about floating point yet other than that it has certain benefits over fixed point. Time to read this page I think. 
My mind is drifting... |
|
sYnCHAoZ
Artist
Topics: 1
Replies: 3
Registered: 27.Jul.03 |
|
Atlantis wrote on 12 Dec. (6:46) :
sYnCHAoZ wrote on 12 Dec. (3:47) :
So far I've been working with 16bit 44khz quality in all regards, but recently it dawned upon me that perhaps upping that aspect might help a bit. |
That's right.
|
I use Renoise to create all the drumtracks and 'floor' elements of my mixes, and then later record guitars and bass onto that in Cubase. All my Renoise samples are 16bit 44khz quality, so I've always assumed that for compatibility reasons I'd have to record my guitars in 16bit 44khz as well. Is that a wrong assumption? |
Well it's true that you can't mix different sample rates and bit depths, but you can easily upsample a sound to a higher sample rate and bit depth, which is what you'll want to do. Or, better yet, render from Renoise at a higher bit depth and (if possible) sample rate.
|
As in, can I export a 16bit 44khz Renoise mixdown, and then record and mix guitars into that with a 24bit 48khz (or even 96khz maybe? My soundcard can easily handle it), without fuxxoring up the sound? |
Most sequencers work at an internal resolution of 32 bit floating point, so whether you open a 16 bit file, or record in 24 bit, the output will still end up in 32 bit float (the lower bits will just be 0's, unless of course you process the sound). Sample rate, however, is a different thing, and you'll likely have to use one common sample rate for the project. You would have to upsample the 44.1 kHz file, or perhaps Cubase is able to do this on the fly, so that you can use a project sample rate of 48 kHz or 96 kHz.
|
And furthermore, would it work to export my Renoise track in 24/48 quality, even when the samples used are 16/44? |
The best advice I can give is to maintain as high a bit depth and sample rate as possible. Even if you start out with a 16 bit sample, processing it will increase the bit depth, and so you'll want to preferably render in 32 bit float. Also, if you're exporting in 16 bit, be sure to enable dither in Renoise (or use a third-party plugin on the master channel), but disable it if you're rendering in 24 bit, because Renoise's dither will still take it back to 16 bit. As I said before though, try to render in 32 bit float, and disable any dither, and use as high a sample rate as your setup will allow. There is a benefit in exporting at 48 kHz if the samples used are at 44.1 kHz, as it minimises aliasing distortion. This was recently covered in this topic, and this topic.
My mind is drifting... |
Ah thanks a BUNCH man! I'll give it a whirl. Cheers! |
|
Slog
Artist
Topics: 61
Replies: 221
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
hmm. I have been making music for like 3 years then 1 year break and now I started again aaaand i dont have a clue about stuff like that bit depths and stuff. I hardly know anything I just create for fun
|Slog| Respect  |
|
Atlantis
Member
Topics: 84
Replies: 3227
Registered: 14.Jan.03 |
Slog wrote on 12 Dec. (16:28) :
hmm. I have been making music for like 3 years then 1 year break and now I started again aaaand i dont have a clue about stuff like that bit depths and stuff. I hardly know anything I just create for fun
|
I haven't made music in 2 years. Go figure.
My mind is drifting... |
|
Javier Sanchez
Member
Topics: 8
Replies: 970
Registered: 26.May.04 |
Slog wrote on 12 Dec. (16:28) :
hmm. I have been making music for like 3 years then 1 year break and now I started again aaaand i dont have a clue about stuff like that bit depths and stuff. I hardly know anything I just create for fun
|
Same here, i do want do improve the quality of my mixes though.
|
|
|
Latest Topics
![[62.243.202.126]](pics/ip.gif){kind=small}
